Ashby Kinch: In this episode, we’re continuing our focus on graduate student mental health and well-being with a recording of a panel at Grad Con in February 2023: "An Interdisciplinary Conversation about Graduate Student Resilience and Retention.” GradCon is the annual graduate student research conference at the University of Montana, and students interested in getting involved should reach out to the newly-formed Graduate Student Research Council, who are organizing the next GradCon, scheduled for March, 2024.  

The 2023 panel, sponsored by the Institute of Health and the Humanities, consisted of dialogue and discussion with graduate students in Clinical Psychology, the Clinical and Mental Health Counseling Masters, and the doctoral program in Counseling. Panelists share their challenges as students, as well as their understanding of mental health as practitioners and researchers.  

Listeners--especially faculty and graduate students--will gain a lot by tracking how they process their experience from both of these perspectives, including the value of creative approaches to navigating the power dynamics of higher education, as well as cultivating resilience.   

We hope this episode inspires you to play a positive role in building a community of care, wherever you are on your journey. 

Welcome to Confluence, where the river is always with us.  

Shannon Lollar: Thank you so much for joining us in our panel today. Um, I'm Dr. Shannon Lollar and I'm an assistant professor in the College of Education, the Department of Counseling, so I will be moderating our panel today. So I appreciate all of you coming. Um, and so today we're having a conversation around graduate students and their resilience and what helps them stay in their graduate programs. And so, um, if we want to just take a second and allow all of you to kind of introduce yourselves and, um, maybe the various roles that you have or have had that have brought you to this panel.

Katelyn Melcher: My name is Katelyn Melcher, and I am in the Department of Psychology. I'm a clinical psychology PhD student, and I am an instructor for the department as well as I work over at SARC as a student clinician.

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I'm Sabina. I'm a second-year doctoral student in the Department of Counseling. Uh, my roles include, uh, teaching undergraduate and some graduate level courses and then supervised master level students.

Allison Lawrence: Um, hi, my name is Allison Lawrence. I am in the counselor ed program as a doc student as well. I am in my second-ish year, um, part time, and I'm also, uh, the head volleyball coach on campus. So, um, working in that capacity as well.

Whitney Miller: Um, I'm Whitney Miller. I'm a master's student in the clinical mental health counseling program. And I am in my final semester, and um, I am a counseling intern over at Curry Health Center on campus. I work in individual counseling with students, and I also do group work, um, for substance use referrals as well.

Robert Ryan: My name is Robert Ryan. I'm a third-year doc student in the counseling department as well. I'm working on my dissertation now. I'm doing an internship at a high school in the area, as well. I have a private practice for mental health counseling, um, worked in college counseling before, after my master, or during my master's program, so, yeah.

Mara Livdahl: My name is Mara Livdahl, I am a second year in the clinical mental health counseling track, also my final semester, and I'm an intern at the YWCA doing individual and group work.

Shannon Lollar: Thank you. Um, so I kind of just want to jump into our questions today and, um, we don't have to go down the line. Y'all can kind of popcorn answer however you feel. Um, but I'm curious if y'all feel comfortable and would be willing to talk about any difficult experiences you've had as a graduate student within your program. And if so, maybe what are some of the ways that you've navigated or handled those situations?

Robert Ryan: Um, there was a there was a number of experiences I don't know if I would call them necessarily ‘difficult experiences,’ ‘challenging’ maybe to a certain extent, different from what I've done before. Um, I came here right out of my masters program um, moved to a different state I moved from Florida, so that was challenging to begin with, just being in a different place. Um I think one of the biggest, um, challenges that I found was moving into the, the doctoral students’, um, aspect of this is working with master's students just after I graduated from the master's program and having that challenge of kind of being in a supervisory role, but still feeling like I was, imposter-syndrome type thing where I wasn't necessarily qualified to be in that role yet. Um, it's definitely something I've grown into. I feel much more confident with it now. Um, how I handled that, I think just with supportive faculty, with colleagues of course who are incredibly supportive, um, we’re there for one another all the time, um, bounce ideas off of one another, things like that. So, I think that it's something that I definitely had to grow into, um, and gain confidence with, but it was, it's turned out really well in the end, I think, so I’m happy.

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I can share. I think that some of the personal challenges were, um, in terms of, um, being here in the States. I'm an international student from Kyrgyzstan, so trying to, um, be away from the family and also try to work on my professional identity here is a little bit of a challenge being so far away and such a long distance. And then also what you said, Robert, in terms of managing multiple roles in terms of teacher, supervisor, mentor, and completing this role simultaneously. That's been also challenging and stressful and time management is a big issue, as well. And some of the things that helped me in, uh, you know, take care of these challenges were to take a step back and figure out like, what is my intention with this program? How would I want to fulfill these roles? And then also rely on support. So, personal support, uh, support with peers, and then also faculty support. Having a good, um, yeah, just having that environment was helpful and, uh, made a difference in how to navigate some of that stress.

Katelyn Melcher: Um, one thing that I really struggled with coming in here was I had done my master's previously at a different institution and I had some negative experiences with my advisor in regards to research. And that was something that was a big hurdle for me to get over was, um, to be able to trust my advisor and know that I could ask questions and look like I didn't know what I was doing, which happens all the time, without, like getting over that fear of being, um, looked down upon for having some of those questions and some of those difficulties. And so it took a lot of conversations with my advisor and it's still something that's ongoing. And, um, she's so encouraging and, um, so wonderful, but, um, something that I continue to navigate based on the experiences that I had, um, and is really relevant for, I think, anybody who's, you know, working with a supervisor, an advisor in a research or clinical role.

Allison Lawrence: Um, I think going back to school, uh, a little bit later in my life and in career has posed some challenges as well as being a mother. Um, and working, I think, in an industry where I'm measured a lot and if there's not success there, I'd probably lose that job. So I think, yeah, there's been some challenges in that way, and just trying to balance all the pursuits in life, um, and wanting to do them well, and that imposter syndrome that Robert talked about I think is very present in that way, and I think I agree with Sabina, um, that relationships have helped, helped ground and fuel, um, and kind of remind me who I am in moments when I feel stretched so thin that I lose sight of that, and I think, also the big-picture piece of when things feel so either compartmentalized or overwhelming. Um, just to reset back to the ‘big why’, as to why, why I'm doing this. Um, and is this effort worth the result in the end? And the answer's always yes. So, it's been fun.

Whitney Miller: I'm just like mesmerized. I'm just like, “Tell me more.” I just love listening to everybody.

Um, I, um, similar to Shannon, come from a background in the arts. And so I think my time as a professional actor absolutely is, um, an attribute and something that I reflect on with great, um, joy and lovely memories. And at the same time, I think, um, created barrier in my application process, um, really convincing or feeling like I had to convince others that I could do this work. And then kind of the secondary step of being accepted and then, um, really convincing myself that I could do this work. Um, but I find something that's really helped me process that is being really honest about those insecurities and those concerns and worries and kind of continually being met by really supportive doctoral students and really supportive faculty that, um, an artistic background is always an attribute and that those skill sets are desired and welcomed, um, even if there's few of us in a clinical space, I think we add great variety and most of those fears are, uh, self-produced and, uh, continued. So, I'm very grateful for that opportunity and guidance.

Mara Livdahl: I would say currently the biggest, uh, difficulty is navigating the professional growth paired with the personal growth. And then kind of, uh, swimming and schoolwork and clinical work and then trying to swim in your personal life is quite hard and challenging. Uh, so I definitely turn toward all of my supervisors, um, which has been so helpful. And then especially the peers that I'm closest with in the program. They're super supportive as well. So the faculty is great. The students, um, are a huge help as well.

Shannon Lollar: Um, I, I'm curious to just take that even a little bit deeper of-- so several of you have mentioned faculty, um, and supervisors and, um, like chairs who have been incredibly supportive to you. And so I'm curious, are there other things that have provided support for you within your programs? And then maybe if a few of you could speak to characteristics within some of the faculty or supervisors that have been helpful for you.

Katelyn Melcher: I know that in the psychology department, especially within the clinical field, uh, the faculty is always preaching work-life balance and really, really supports us having a life outside of our academic careers. It's not uncommon to, um, see faculty members, like, go to a bar together or, um, go on a skiing trip, hanging outside, um, outside of the academic setting and doing things that are completely unrelated to their research or their academic roles. And that modeling has really been beneficial for me to feel, like, okay when I decide that I'm done for the day and I just need to go to bed early or when I decide to take a weekend and not touch my schoolwork. Um, that's been really, really influential for me and really helpful and not just, um, me feeling more comfortable, but me being able to encourage my peers to do the same.

Robert Ryan: Um, I would just say as far as the, um, faculty concern, the characteristics that have been most helpful to me are the fact that a lot of them just have an open-door policy. Um, you can walk in, not necessarily kind of a formalized atmosphere, it's definitely more informal. Um, I came from a master's program where it was very formal, it was always “Doctor this, Doctor that,” you know, there were expectations, I guess. I don't know that it was ever expressed that way, but it's certainly the way, um, all of us behaved in the program and there was that, just that formality to it.

But here, it's a first-name basis, that was certainly an adjustment to get used to that. Um, and then, they're just incredibly supportive in any role that you want to take on in the department, whether it be, um, a research role or a teaching role or just volunteering for something. I definitely found them to be very receptive to all of those things. So I think that that, um, was helpful in kind of learning to get my feet wet and try out different parts of this profession. Um, definitely, definitely was good as far as, um, this question as well--just learning, I guess, um, not to do too much and to learn when to say no to a certain extent. Um, when things get to be feeling like it's too much to manage, um, I think the faculty is supportive of that as well and they're able to accept that, you know, we've taken a lot and they protect our time to a certain extent with that as well. So that's definitely a characteristic that's helpful.

Whitney Miller: I think in the counseling program I'm, um, very struck by the fact that all of our faculty members are licensed clinicians. And, um, I feel like we're quite spoiled with that, um, or quite fortunate to have that feature in our faculty members that they, um, truly mean it when they, you know, sit and ask, “How are you?”, which means a lot. I think I think, like Robert, what you said about saying no, um, also really resonates with me too, that there are so many additional opportunities, as I'm sure many graduate students in the room can attest to, and doctoral students, that there's always an additional project, or a group, or something to do, something to lead. And I think feeling empowered that, um, what you contribute is good enough, um, just exactly where you are, I think is something, um, we can all be reminded of. And I find that our faculty is, um, continually affirming of that, that choice when to say ‘no.’

Katelyn Melcher: I was also going to say that when they ask, “How are you?”, they truly mean it, which is super wonderful. And then I love how often the supervisors and faculty follow up with an email of being like: “I know we talked about this thing. So when are we going to find time to actually get you the support that you need?” And so I really love that of like, they continuously follow up, uh, like you connect in person and then you connect over an email to set up like a more formal time to really, uh, be together and support one another. So that's quite wonderful.

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I think that I would like to add to what everyone said in our department. There's also this level of comfort to come in and voice some of the concerns that you might have in terms of like carrying the load and how much you need to do and at the same time faculty gets to know, um, a bit more about your personal life, if you, if you feel comfortable sharing of like what is going on outside of this, you know, counseling department? Like: “What are the struggles that you are navigating at the moment and is there anything that we can do to help you better manage your duties during the program?” Um, and then they sometimes saying like, I think we're going to make the decision for you so you don't have to do a lot more and that is very helpful because you want to do your job well, and you want to continue to do the tasks and also feeling kind of overwhelmed and not being sure how to say no to some of the things. So sometimes when they make that decision for you, there's like a sense of relief and you're like: “Oh, yes, thank you for understanding me.” So, that's what I wanted to add.

Allison Lawrence: I think the only other things I'd add. I definitely feel seen as a whole person. Um, which allows me to see myself that way and others that way. Um, but it also is very, uh, collaborative. It's the biggest, the most collaborative space I think I've ever been in or worked in, rather than competitive, and I think that just fosters a sense of unity, it fosters a sense of health, and the ability to say, “I'm not doing okay today, and I'm gonna take the time or the space that I need, or I'm gonna ask for what I need.”

Shannon Lollar: I know a lot of this whole panel is coming from the social sciences, but it really does sound like foundationally, kind of fundamentally, what I'm hearing from y'all is that, um, from a faculty standpoint is this idea of being seen kind of holistically, um, not just as a student or what you can do to produce within your department and program is really valuable. And the idea of actually having a space where you feel like your voice is actually heard and what you say kind of matters. And that feels like, um, that can be carried across the board beyond just, um, the social sciences, um, as something faculty can continue to try to incorporate within, um, their roles and what they do to support their students.

Thank you all for sharing that. Um, so this question, I, I'm curious just are there any particular systems within academia that actually have been really challenging to navigate? Um, so like the structures and maybe barriers that have been in place that have just been difficult and then, um, if you have been able to figure out how to maneuver through them, what have you done or what's helped you maneuver through those kind of barriers within academia?

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I think that, um, some of the, I don't know whether the ‘challenges’ would be the correct way to answer this, but maybe some of the ‘uncertainties’ or ‘confusions’ were centered around how to navigate interpersonal connections in the cohort. I'm going to speak for our cohort for doctoral students, where we closely work with each other in various roles, so like teaching, supervision, um, pairing up on various projects like proposing to conferences, attending conferences, and when, um, concerns or questionable behavior happens in terms of professional behaviors, there's a little bit of uncertainty how to address that.

And, uh, that's been a little bit, um, complicated. And, you know, when faced with such dilemma, there's uncertainty of, like: How do I go about it? Who do I go to? Who do I, um... Yeah. How can I express this concern? And then what are the actual repercussions, you know, if I present on this concern? So maybe having a bit more guidance in that area would be helpful. And how to better manage it is that I'm going to study this as part of my dissertation research topic. And then when I have, when I have some answers, I hopefully will present on it. But at the moment, there's a little bit of uncertainty. And because of the gap, I think it's important that we attend to these issues and start talking about it. So, thanks.

Robert Ryan: I think just going off of what Sabina said a little bit, um, yeah, I think the formal and informal roles in academia are kind of, have been kind of challenging because you have, for example, the dissertation committee where you have this formalized relationship with your committee members where you have to meet certain standards and achieve certain things, but you also have people who are very genuinely interested in your success um, on kind of a personal level, so to speak, because they're invested as well in what you're doing. Um, and learning how to, I guess, manage that with it being okay to kind of show some vulnerability and things like that in there and that it is a challenge, um, and it's okay to be human, um, in that I think was a big part for me. Um, I wanted--I've been someone who wanted to traditionally know how to do things and to present the best that I could. Um, and I feel like I've done that, but also there have been times when I haven't done that, and I feel like, the faculty, um, has been supportive there as well. So, just kind of that area of formal versus informal roles and how to, um, kind of grow into accepting that relationship and being okay with the different parts of it.

Katelyn Melcher: I think one of the challenging things that is not, um, it's not isolated to this institution and it's something that I'm going to continue to encounter as I'm considering a career in academia is the hierarchies that exist. And along with that, um, knowing that I hold different identities and how those identities may come across or not come across to different individuals. And, um, it's thankfully something that, um, again, I have an advisor and the peers in my cohort are always, we're always having these conversations with one another, um. But it's something that I'm constantly aware of. Like, you know, if I decide to cancel my class that I'm teaching today, how does that look to my students? How do I dress? Um, when I, you know, I'm a very casual person, but I want to, um, convey professionalism to both my, uh, clinical clients and the students that I teach. Um, and it's just always something that I'm thinking about that I wish I didn't have to spend so much energy doing.

Whitney Miller: I think, um, when I thought about this question and just, um, yeah, like a systems perspective in academia, I, um, have often struggled with the, the duties and the additional things asked of graduate students and doctoral students, um, oftentimes for free and uncompensated. Um, I think I hear a lot from graduate students outside of our program that are asked to do many, many laborious, time-consuming, extra things for free. Um, and I struggle with that. Um, coming from an arts background, I struggle with compensating or understanding and comprehending the amount of free work I've done in my life and getting to a professional point where, um, that doesn't feel appropriate anymore for the skill sets. I feel like we've all worked very, very hard to develop. And I've heard that from a lot of other graduate students and doctoral students. So, um, I don't know a solution for that aside from like very large systemic changes outside of this panel. Um, but I hear, you know, from my individual clients at Curry frequently, who are asked to teach and research and be a student and wear so many hats and get paid, um, a pretty offensive amount of money, so, [laughter] thank you. That's the nicest way I can put it. Um, and I don't, you know, I... Yeah, it's challenging, it's a struggle, because I don't think, you know, anyone is making an amazing amount of money. I don't look at our faculty members and think like, oh gosh, wow, what amazing income. It's, it's just, it's so much work, and I see how incredibly taxing it is, you know. I don't know students who would make it through school if they didn't have... inherited money from family, family support, or a partner that makes significant more income than them. And that's a pretty unfortunate reality.

Shannon Lollar: It sounds like there's a lot of different pieces of, and different types of barriers that you've encountered, whether it's like financial, identity-based, um, I think also like what I really heard too is kind of this resounding idea of how do I connect with my faculty and my faculty support when, um, I'm also being evaluated, kind of? And so like I'm, I'm encouraged to be, you know, ask for support and ask for help, but how do I do that when then what if that potentially gets used against me or I, you know--there's all of these different kind of things to navigate. And so potentially even just transparency about the types of meetings you're having and just having kind of more frank conversations with faculty might be helpful. But then also like the larger systemic things that we work within systems and even your department operates within a larger system of the college and the university and how navigating multiple layers can be really confusing and really difficult.

Um, yeah, I appreciate all of you sharing about those. Um, and I wish I had magic answers for you or all of you. Um, but to kind of tap into that--how have you taken care of yourself while being in graduate school? Um, I think it's one of those things that we, um, even as a counselor educator, I like to preach wellness, and oftentimes it's, can be one of those do as I say, not as I do situations. And so, and it's, I am encouraging you and asking you to talk about self-care while knowing you're a graduate student where you also have these expectations that can also feel very heavy, and so balancing self-care. Um, but what are some things that have helped you?

Mara Livdahl: I'd love to share. Um, I love to do artwork, mainly painting. And so, um, when I'm trying, like struggling between should I write this case report or should I paint, um, I just, my time of like, I'm going to spend 30 minutes painting, and then that's going to probably provide me to feel like in a more academic state, and then I turn to writing. So I turn toward art, um, I also really love to exercise. And then I think the biggest piece is to find people that I can talk to about things that are not mental-health related. We can like watch a show about, like The Bachelor. Great show. That's my plug. You can watch that and not talk about mental health. Um, yeah, so finding connection outside of the cohort has been super important to me as well.

Robert Ryan: Yeah, I'll just add to that really quickly. What's been important to me is not to isolate, I think in, in this experience. Um, it's too easy, like lately, for example, to get focused on SPSS and get lost in that for hours and hours and hours at a time. Um, but it's important to go out and to interact with people in ways like I started playing tennis again and things like that, just being around other people. And remembering not to get too focused all the time on what I'm doing there to kind of branch out and experience other aspects of life and maintain that in my life has been helpful.

Allison Lawrence: I think one thing, um, that one of my mentors said to me that was really helpful is to not have as an expectation that every day would feel really balanced. So looking at my calendar in the sense of a week, or a month, or sometimes six months, and saying: “How, how am I building balance into that?” And that helped me not feel like days when I was really exhausted, or, um, got home and put kids to bed and didn't feel like, oh, I had my reading time, or I had my exercise time that I, I knew, okay, in this group of days, I'm going to build that in and I'm going to make sure that I hold myself to that. And it also took the pressure off of like, wow, I'm an imbalanced person and now I'm judging myself for that because I had a week where I didn't have much time. So, just thinking about balance a different way helped me. And it helped me embrace, um, the grind, too, a little bit. And, and I kind of come from a world in sports where it's like the grind is this honorable thing, and, um, but I think sometimes you, you gotta buckle down and do it, and I think that's okay if, um, the other parts of that are really present and intentional, so.

Mara Livdahl: I think my biggest piece of advice coming as someone who didn't do very well with self-care in my master's program is not forgetting about the basics. For me like staying hydrated. I prioritize sleep over everything. Like, if I'm crabby if I'm sad if I don't feel well if I just feel off I'm like I'm gonna take a nap. And usually I feel a lot better. Or after getting a full night's sleep and even things down to like for me It's so easy for me to forget to eat, or to like, be busy, and like, not take the time to have a snack. And like, there's been times where I've gotten to a point where I'm like: “Hmm, I've gone like three days and I've only eaten two meals.” And I notice that it takes a toll on me. And like, immediately within like 24 hours of like, doing better at that, I feel better and I feel more energized and ready to be focused. And so, um, that's something that I think we tend to put on the back burner a lot as graduate students.

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I think that it's also helpful to learn about signs of burnout for me. So if I know that I'm starting to get really overwhelmed with all of the tasks, this is the time especially to pause and take care of myself so that I can have energy to continue with the tasks. And if I cannot take care of myself, then there's not much that I can give to my students or to my supervisees. So oftentimes when it comes to self-care, um, there's this kind of annoying voice about guilt. You know, if I take time to take care of myself, then, you know, am I really that invested into my program or the roles that I'm carrying? So I think it's helpful for me to know I'm doing this for myself so that I can be better present for my students and for my supervisees and there's some things that I don't compromise. So like exercise in the morning. This is my time and I started with myself for myself and then I can be more present with other people who I interact with daily. And, yeah, just taking time to do non mental health related stuff or not read textbooks and do something fun like read the book that you've been wanting. So spending time there, even if it's 10 minutes, it's important. So those are my tips.

Whitney Miller: I just learned so much from all of you. I don't know if I have any tips. I'm still working on this.

Allison, I really was like struck by what you said about balance, because I think I'm definitely guilty of some pretty rigid black-and-white thinking, where the night before, I'll say I'm getting up at this time, I'm running from this time to this time. And start to get very, um, uh, rigid about what needs to happen at what time. And I think something I've really tried to challenge myself on and work with is like, 15 minutes will not make or break this day. I can start a run at 6:30 instead of 6:00. Like, giving myself that moment between, um, you know, checking the time and having a, like, catastrophic response has been really helpful for me.

Um, yeah, I think having things outside of mental health--like I think having reading or television or music or relationships that aren't connected to, um, mental health care or traumatic material in some way is really important. Um, going home to a really safe partner is also just so important. He's over there. So important to my mental health. And so I just encourage students and I always encourage, um, folks on my caseload, too, to just not isolate, Like you said, Robert, like, it can be so easy to want to cocoon, and I want to cocoon frequently. But I think being very honest with our supervisors, Sabina’s my supervisor, and instructors, um, when we need help and when we're not doing well, um, I think is just as important as how we take care of ourselves, recognizing it, um, when we need that extra support.

Shannon Lollar: Thank you. Um, and it sounds like this idea, I really appreciate it too, Alison, what you shared of like right now it might be I need to white knuckle through this part of writing for my dissertation or for, you know, my thesis and knowing that that doesn't immediately mean my whole life is outta balance. And I think that's powerful. And I also really like this idea that self-care isn't like a glass of wine and bubble bath. Like it can be the bare necessities. Am I, did I make time for a meal? Did I make time to like get some sleep? And that can be really powerful. And so I think transitioning just how we think about self-care, too, is not this luxury, but like a necessity where it can be-- I know for me, like if I have 10 minutes to clean my kitchen, it's amazing. And like that can help me be more productive. And so I think transitioning how we think about that can be really helpful.

So this last question, I think, is a tough one and I'm really excited to hear your answers to this. And I think everyone is excited to hear this is: Are there areas for improvement within higher education to foster wellness and resiliency of graduate students? What can we do better?

Whitney Miller: Yes, that's a resounding yes from me. I think when we think about higher education, um, you know, I think there are often opportunities presented to students, um, that are exciting and engaging and new. And I think it can sometimes create this, um, fear of missing an opportunity. Uh, fear of missing an extra training or an extra chance to lead something or do something. While it's wonderful and it's part of faculty's role to facilitate additional opportunities, I think, like Mara said, balancing, like, your clinical work and responsibilities as a counselor to your caseload and to your clients and your role as a student. Your role as a student in our program is so much personal work and personal growth. And so I think when additional opportunities to, um, help the, um, university at large or the program present itself, it, it feels like we're, we're letting them down. Um, maybe I'm just speaking, you know, from my own responses to that. But feeling like, you know, we're not doing enough. And so, I think recognizing the, the work is enough and that, um, balancing your role as a student and a, uh, clinician is really challenging. And so, I don't know what to improve. I also worry about faculty and want to know that you're okay too, so.

Allison Lawrence: Um, I think in this question, I just want to emphasize, um, something that I think is a strength, but also something that I think is a system that can always be improved, um, and I deal with a lot in coaching and helping athletes, um, my athletes with resiliency is about feedback and about feedback loops. And I feel like feedback to me, not--the absence of feedback makes me feel very lonely and isolated. And I think, while it's really difficult to give feedback, to me it's the most loving and affirming, um, thing that a person can do as a supervisor. Um, and, and I think that relationship and that loop and that intention within a system is really powerful and builds in the things that we've been speaking to. So, I just, I think in that, in that question somewhere is, um, that's a key element to just strength in any kind of system and, um, yeah, I value it a ton.

Sabina Sabyrkulova: I'm not sure whether this is like an area of improvement, but this is area that perhaps different departments can evaluate the culture and environment that they create for students. And I think that in our Department of Counseling, the culture and environment is very supportive, it's very personal relational. And I don't know what it looks like in you know other departments throughout the university. And it is more helpful to feel collaborative and feel like people are invested in you, instead of looking at, um, at the progress or being evaluated from a point of view of, like, you need to do more, you need to do better. And I don't know if some departments have this competitive nature to that.

So I think that when we feel supported and we know that maybe this is the week when we are out of balance, it's going to be okay. And, uh, just like having more personal interactions, checking in and asking like: “How are you doing?” And even though if it's like a small bit of connection with your students, I think that would mean a lot.

And, speaking also for international students, you know, there's um, a lot more at cost there. Because we're so far away from families, we don't know the personal sacrifices. that, um, you know, international students are making. And then there's also a lot of fear of like, can I maintain my status here as an international student? What's going to happen if I'm not being competent enough? Are there any repercussions? So maybe doing just a little bit extra to get to know them better and asking how can we better support you? What would be important for me to know about you? And is there anything in the department that we can do differently? That would make a big difference.

Mara Livdahl: I think of integrated care and how important it is to understand the roles within each department and then also at large of like: Who do we go to, um, when we have a bigger systemic question? And so, I think, like, understanding people's roles and then having communication amongst those roles in order to build connections so that we're not just all little siloed departments. It's more community-based. And so if someone is not getting the support that they need from an advisor or supervisor in a different department, that they don't feel isolated that they can have other people to turn toward. Um, that's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Katelyn Melcher: I want to say this with the caveat that my experience here at the University of Montana has been overwhelmingly positive. And I love it here so much. That said, I have a response that I feel like university officials will not like and that is that we need more funding. Um, I don't have a partner and housing is so expensive here in Missoula. It's hard to be a graduate student on the stipend that we get. And even some of the things like health insurance. That was a big concern for me coming here. Um, whereas other programs offered me health insurance at a pretty inexpensive cost. Um, and even just things like, there's so many opportunities that I want to do. I want to be able to go to conferences. I want to be able to spearhead more research. Um, but I don't always have the funds to do so. And I know that that's not an easy issue that's going to get solved overnight. But, um, the basic needs are--it's important that those are met. And, um, also, you know, we are an R1 institution. We want to continue producing amazing research. And so, um, I hope that that continues to be a conversation.

Robert Ryan: I think the only thing I would add, um, to this, I know that I've spoken with some of my own colleagues who I graduated with a master's program with and are at other doctoral programs around the country. Um, their experience is very different than what I've experienced here. There's, um, like you mentioned with funding, there's always, there's different kind of, um, dynamics within departments and within colleges and universities where some are more competitive in that way. Um, I think that's more connection with outside institutions and I don't know that's something that could be solved easily, but I know that other colleagues of mine have reached out and have been, um, I'm surprised at the way I describe our program here versus what they're experiencing. So, I don't know if it's anything, like I said, that can be done, but just more connection inter-institutionally, if that's the right word, um, to support one another in the larger environment of graduate education. I think that that would be incredibly helpful because, um, it's definitely needed. And it's a problem that some institutions experience more than others for a variety of reasons.

Shannon Lollar: It sounds like in a lot of ways like transparency, like more transparency among the different colleges and the different departments and kind of that interdisciplinary connection could be really helpful. Um, and even maybe transparency regarding like where to get funding, how to apply for funding, and even just like more training opportunities on how to do that and explore for that or apply for those things. Um, and it, I mean, to just also go back to feedback. And I think having departments and faculty and staff being really open and receptive to feedback from students, um, but also that there's safety to actually give feedback, too, without fear of like retaliation. Cause again, it's this, it's balancing all of the different power dynamics that exists and kind of navigating all of those systems can be really difficult. I appreciate all of you being willing to share kind of your suggestions in that too. Um, and just want to acknowledge the vulnerability that took as well.

And so, I just want to thank our panel for sharing their experiences and being willing to be with us today. And thank y'all for sitting and listening. Um, and I hope you have a good rest of your GradCon.